We would like to thank the Osceola News Gazette for bringing to light the two remaining candidates’ lack of stance on ALL the issues. Amazingly, both candidates sound exactly the same. Regarding the workforce housing project known as the Preserve: Davis is on the fence, stating that the site is up for debate. Griffin states that his dissent for the Preserve is because of the proposed location of the project. Regarding the issue of budget cuts and tax cuts: Davis was the first out of the gate calling for budget cuts and tax cuts. Griffin although initially starting his campaign stating that he had some questions about the budget that he would like answered, then shifted his campaign towards economic development. When asked a budget related question in the candidates’ forum, Griffin stated that he had not really looked at the budget and couldn’t answer the question at that time. That raised some eyebrows here at WayneWho headquarters. Now that taxes and budget are being cut, Griffin has questions regarding how the city will live with the budget cuts and what impact that will have with the continued services of the city. As far as economic development in St. Cloud: neither candidate has really offered any real plans as to how they plan on bringing high-paying jobs to St. Cloud. Regarding growth and traffic in the city: Davis and Griffin have not addressed the issue.
Short end of the stick:
The Preserve: Both Griffin and Davis are for the project if it is moved from the Michigan property.
Budget and Taxes: Although Davis did nothing in the past to lower taxes or cut the budget, Griffin didn’t even take the time to review the budget when he stated the reason for his running was to address the budget. However, during the campaign they both were for tax cuts and budget cuts.
Economic Development: Both offer no plans.
Growth and traffic: Neither candidate has addressed the issue.
WayneWho’s thoughts:
Again the voters find themselves in the unfortunate position of choosing between the lesser of two evils. Both candidates have spent all of their political capital for this three-month seat and neither seems to have a clue what is important to the community and either one will more than likely just end up being business as usual. As far as Wade Davis is concerned, we know his record, however, we may be seeing a real change of heart. Is it election year rhetoric that reads good or is it a real conversion towards the people? That is something the voters will have to figure out.
Tom Griffin has a lot riding on this election. With the added support of the St. Cloud firefighters’ union, the realtors association and the landlords’ association president, will he be able to pull this election off? All we can say is may the man who worked the hardest win, because we feel that in the end he will be the only one who does.
25 comments:
It's a real shame. You would have thought that Griffin would have offered something in the form of change but it doesn't look that way, huh? Well, January's right around the corner.
There is a difference. On the preserve, Tom Griffen said in the Gazette,"The location is wrong, the timing is wrong. It doesn't fit with the area it's being proposed for. Michigan Ave. is a substandard road." The St. Cloud in the news reported Mr. Griffin saying, "There is no need for the preserve,as there is an abundance of available property for rental."
On taxes, Mr. Davis admitted he over taxed us in the Gazette, saying, "I should have introduced it sooner, but we were happy with the status quo."
Speaking of the preserve and high taxes, let's all raise a cheer that Tom Greer is not running again!
It's a shame that your information is so incorrect; but that's what you get when you don't review your sources.
The Osceola News Gazette is supporting Wade Davis--the candidate who lost the first round of voting. Tom Griffin is on record against The Preserve-regardless of location. Wade Davis is on record of supporting The Preserve.
Tom Griffin is on record against wasteful spending projects. Wade Davis has a demonstrated History of throwing away St. Cloud funds.
Tom Griffin is on record supporting and pushing the City of St. Cloud to further create an environment conducive to new businesses, working with City employees and Business Groups.
Typically your blog in interesting and humorous, but on this topic I'm sorry to see that your information is so lacking. Before making a political stance, which will be a target for criticism, please give the candidates in question a call and brush up on additional information sources. I wouldn't trust only one source (Fox news or CNN) to provide me with unbiased coverage before a political election, so why should I trust someone who relies on only one print publication?
Shawn Van Dusen
svandusen@rtbs.biz
Who's the genius who left the above comment. Read the first half of what you typed. {Tom Griffen said in the Gazette,"The location is wrong, the timing is wrong. It doesn't fit with the area it's being proposed for. Michigan Ave. is a substandard road."} That means if it's moved he'll approve it. The same thing Davis is now saying. That is what Wayne Who is reporting -they both sound the same. Sometimes I wonder if some of you people even read the articles before you comment.
I watched the debate in St. Cloud on TV and what both candidates said there about the Preserve was that it was in the wrong location. I'm a St. Cloud chamber member and I know that Tom his whole campaign has hid behind saying it is the wrong location. He'll say he's against it but in the next breath say it's because it's the wrong location. The only thing he hasn't done is just say "I'm against it because it's in the wrong location." He says it in two different statements to confuse people.
Wade has actually backed off his proactivity towards the project. But he is still for it.
I feel sorry for the residents of St. Cloud. However, only 10% of them showed up to vote. I bet most of Tom's support is wishing they had voted for Harrell. God knows I wish they had! There are a bunch of us
St. Cloud folks hoping that Harrell runs for Mayor in January. He needs to run for Mayor at least.
To comment on Anonymous at 1:33pm's remarks:
Ah yes, debate on teh interweb is always so illuminating. Incomplete data means neither validation or disproval of a statement.
To further this discussion, here is the text from one of the letters we received from Tom Griffin:
________________________________
You’ve heard all about The Preserve--the proposed government-subsidized,
multi-family housing project that Wendover Housing wants to build in your neighborhood. You know that the Preserve threatens your community.
Don’t let special interests override your interests.
Don’t let the wrong man, with the wrong plan, build on your land.
On September 18th, you can tell the City Council to vote NO on rezoning your neighborhood and to keep The Preserve out of St. Cloud. You can vote for Tom Griffin.
Tom said ‘no’ when backers of The Preserve offered to fund his campaign. Tom knows
that The Preserve is wrong solution in the wrong place.
________________________
In addition, at the OCLA meting last month, Tom stood up in front of members of the press and said that he would vote against The Preserve. Wade Davis said he would vote for The Preserve.
_______________________________
One of the largest traps in debating is falling in love with, and then attempting to use, a single source as your only font of information and facts. Again, to restate my earlier point, I would recommend that anyone reviewing candidates for any position, be they local, state or federal, do their diligence and consult multiple sources of information, viewed over time.
-Shawn
On Sept. 6, at an open public forum, Mr. Griffin stated the following:
"The preserve project was initially presented as a project to attract new teachers to the area. Unfortunatly, the presentation was a lie. After digging through the details of this boondoggle, it became clear that there is no way that this project would achieve that goal. I am against this state sponsored, above market cost, public housing project."
Two reporters from the local newpapers heard that comment. Four of the five candidates stood against this type of project. Many reasons were given, not just the location.
Only Mr. Davis stood for it.
I congradulate those four candidates for not taking the special interest's money, or folding under pressure from school board members.
Tom Long
The above listed commenters seem to be very defensive of Mr. Griffin.
Mr. Griffin has changed his reasoning about why he is against the preserve, so I don't blame Wayne Who for having a hard time nailing down where he stands on the issue. When he first started running, Griffin said he was against it because Greer lied as to why it was being built, then at the landlord's debate he said that regardless of where he was leaning with the project he was against it because he was threatened by a schoolboard member (anybody remember that one) and at the chamber forum he said he was against it because it was the wrong location (same thing Wade Davis is saying) the point is Wayne Who is right, and the local papers reported all of those answers. You can't figure out why he is really against it, which makes me wonder what will make him for it? There are those in politics that will blindly follow people because "at least they're not the other guy (in this case Wade Davis)." Kinda like the 33% of Americsa that still approve of our President's job performance. It is ok to question candidates and elected officials -yes- even the ones that you are backing, but don't get so entrenched emotionally with your horse winning -like the above listed commenters Tom Long and Shawn Van Dusen- where you are defending bad policies and unclear plans or direction just because "he's not the other guy."
Who the heck is Shawn Van Dusen? Did you even read the article Shawn? Have you read any of the papers since this election started? Wake up and smell the coffee! Tom Griffin has his state (tax payer) sponsored rehab people out there doing all the hard work for him. Does this smell of ethics violations? Sure Wade is a flip-flop, we already know that. The papers have constantly reminded us. However, the reason Wayne Who is trying to nail Griffin down is so we the readers can figure out if he is a flip-flop as well. It really concerns me that leaders of local associations have coddled up to this guy when you look at the rules and laws he's already broken just to win a three month seat. Says a lot about the character of the people that openly defend his flip-flop stands on the preserve and the budget. Why didn't Mr. Long and Mr. Dusen address the fact that Griffin has flip-flopped on his biggest "priority" -the budget and economic develoment? Why has Mr. Griffin flipped all over the place on that issue as well? You don't know, do you guys? That's because you are so busy trying to defend THAT you support him -you don't even know why you do. It is apparent that Griffin is a FLIP-FLOP liberal just like Davis. That is what Wayne Who is getting at. You don't have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to figure that one out. Spend tax payers' money and have no idea why -"business as usual." Kinda' like havin the rehabers out there doing the campaigning for ya at the tax-payers' expense, huh?
Isn't Tom Long the Landlord's Association president? Why is he backing a guy that takes advantage of tax-payer supported rehab people? Isn't that just a government subsidized campaign staff? Isn't that exactly what Mr. Long is fighting against
-misappropriation and misuse of tax-payers' money? They frequently throw out the word "boondoggle." Isn't that ironic? Fighting for the candidate who is trying to win by practicing the very thing that you are against. Whatever it takes to win -I guess. Makes you wonder who is really involved in a boondoggle -doesn't it?
Where has Shawn Van Dusen been the past two months? Does he even know how to read?
WOW! If you have to say so much to explain why you support a candidate, you probably should take a good second look as to why you really support them.
PS. Don't attack WayneWho, Dusen. They're the only real source of news we have in this area -they have ALWAYS been right. Remember, if it wasn't for them, you'd be talking to Councilman Davis. They broke the appointment story. You owe them an apology. Say "your sorry" for attacking the Central Florida Renowned Blog of the Century (as seen on TV). But you wouldn't know that, because you are apparently just joining us from your summer's hibernation.
The sad part is that Griffin says he's not attached to special interests, we already know Wade is. What are the Landlords' Association and the Realtors? Are they not special interests? These crackpot activists are the problem in this county. They try to convince people that bad government is better than worse government. It's a no win for the residents either way. Why don't they ever support candidates that are for the residents. Two words: SPECIAL INTERESTS. What Wayne Who is saying in the article is that these "support groups" -like the landlords, the union and the realtors- are in it for themselves. Look who they are supporting. A candidate that is clearly in it for himself. "I've invested into this community for 18 years now it's time for you to invest into me." That's the mentality that the fools have that are in there now. Wayne Who is right. "Business as usual." And Tom Long and the union and the realtors put the people in the situation where they now have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Why do these special interests always put the community into these dire situations? Do the realtors and landlords really wonder why there are so many homes and businesses going under? These special interest idiots deserve it!
Tom Long again. Yes, I am a special interest. Hopefully, your special interest. Tax payers. Yes, I am the Landlord Association President. Landlords whose properties pay taxes.
I have been involved with bringing the preserve into the light for 10 months now. There have been many articles in both local papers. I even held a public forum with all the facts.
There are over $3 million in local taxes and $5 million from the State used to purchase and build this mess. After it is built, it will not pay any property taxes. Therefore, you and everyone else will.
To top it off the rents will be higher than what is already available. The owners of the land would be the school board, and they will not put up one cent. Your taxes will. The owners of the buildings will be the education foundation. They aren't putting up any money either. But they get the profits.
Our County Commissioners just completed the new years funding. They had to fire some employees, and cut back on some services.
And yet they have not cut off the $1,788,040 of give away money for the preserve. (Resolution 06-086R). That money could have been used to keep up services or keep employees.
If anyone wants more facts call me. My number is 407-892-5836. Or you could email me at jjz231@cs.com. Put the preserve in the subject line.
I applaud Wayne Who for his efforts keeping everyone informed with what our politicians are doing with our money. I wish his common sense and determination to use the taxpayers money wisely could be passed on to our elected officials.
Tom Long
That's a great point. Harrell is the best choice for the voters? Why are these special interests like the landlords and the realtors backing Griffin? He is using tax payers money to fund his "volunteer" efforts. That's un-ethical to a lot of us. Why did these interests back that kind of candidate? Harrell definitely proved his ability to be elected. He definitely showed you don't need the special interests to get elected. Hopefully, Harrell will run for a bigger seat than the city. The city is way to minor for his leadership abilities. He could obviously make a bigger difference somewhere else.
Long needs to back away from this guy, it's making him stink too. Wade will vote against the Preserve at this point, if he doesn't like the location. I think the whole council will. Look at the 180 they did on taxes and the budget. Jonathan Harrell has already made an impact on the community and he hasn't been elected yet.
I think both political parties need a good Presidential candidate. Do you think they would make an age exception if he would run?
I think everyone is missing the whole point about the Preserve. You have government getting involved in business. To me this is reprehensible. I have rental property that I rent for a fair price. I hope to make a small return on my money and end up with nice properties when I retire. But look what is happening. Government is taking my hard earned tax dollars and spending them on a project which will directly compete with me. This skews the market and ultimately is destructive to the local economy. Government is inefficient and does not work. Why doesn't the City of St Cloud open up and subsidize a restaurant? It could offer all City employees, teachers, firefighters, etc a big discount because they could use a little savings. Why doesn't the City of St Cloud open up and subsidize a gas station and car repair shop? Why doesn't the City of St Cloud open up a car dealership so it can provide vehicles for this special class of citizen that they are trying to promote.
The Preserve is a special interest scam that takes tax payer dollars and misuses them for the benefit of a few.
Where is Howard Roark when you need him?
Don't knock Tom Long. He has done more to help this county by exposing the tax schemes of elected officials. The Preserve project should not happen anywhere. And I am going to help out each and every time that something like this comes along that steals tax dollars while they are laying off police and fire officials. 1.7 mil buys a lot of protection.
Anonymous said...October 6, 2007 4:24 PM
I think both political parties need a good Presidential candidate.
There is a great Presidential candidate out there. His name is Ron Paul. Check him out at www.RonPaul2008.com
Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record:
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.
Check him out at www.RonPaul2008.com
He is the first honest politician to come around in generations.
Let’s look beyond the center of the spotlight (workforce housing). The Preserve is nothing more than guaranteed profits for the developer. In return for 5 to 7 years of huge profits they repay the favor to local business men and politicians by giving them an opportunity earn huge profits when the Preserve ownership is transferred to their care. Mean while the tax payer continues to be pick pocketed by local politicians. See how simple it really is?
Why do you not publicly post all comments? I have put together concise comments in the past that were inoffensive and they were censored.
To quote your site's masthead.
This site offers opinion, and we encourage you to develop an opinion of your own. If we have helped influence your opinion...no charge.
I have developed an opinion and commented to anonymous "I think both political parties need a good Presidential candidate."
I responded to that opinion and was not published. I understand that this is your blog and you have every right to censor, but it seems hypocritical to solicit opinion without open posting.
It just puts you in the same category as all the old media who shape news and comment according to their own opinion. Come on Wayne Who. You are better than that.
We get what we deserve! Griffin VS Wade Again, we as citizens are force to pick between the lesser of two evils. Until the citizenry brings political conversation to the front and center of every day life, our apathy and ignorance will further shackle us to our now less than mediocre government.
The Ron Paul poster is pretty funny. First he posts an ad comment for a presidential candidate in the middle of a discussion for a local city board race. Then he posts a follow-up comment because apparently Wayne Who didn't post his first comment fast enough for him...as if the presidential election was this week (oops, that's the local race again).
Why isn't Long answering the question? He writes a nice essay talking about nothing he was asked. Maybe he should run for office along side Wade and Griffin. Apparently the mentality of don't answer the question has set in. Tom Long, how are you supporting a candidate that is using the same abuse of tax-payers' money tactics that you are accusing the local governments and Davis of? What gives?
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